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Wednesday, December 26, 2007

40 Iranians arrive in Israel, 200 this year, up from 65 the year before: A7: Iranian Jews Leave Their Silent Nightmare, Come Home to Israel

WaPo: Iranian Jews Arrive in Israel

The dhimmi head of the Jewish Community in Iran is claiming it's all a trick: Jewish-Iranian leader questions aliya

...Ciamak Morsathegh, who heads the Teheran Jewish Committee, claimed Wednesday that the immigrants were not Iranian because pictures broadcast on television in Israel on Tuesday did not show their faces. In Israel, the broadcasters did not show their faces because there was concern that publicity could lead to harm of Jews still in Iran.

"This is a misinformation campaign, a campaign of lies against Iran and its Jewish community. We can't confirm that 40 Iranian Jews landed in Israel," Morsathegh told The Associated Press.

A joint statement signed by Morsathegh and Morris Motamed, the only Jewish lawmaker in the Iranian parliament, also said the Iranian Jews have never been part of any "organized immigration" to Israel...

46 Comments

People should remember a simple fact. The origins of the Jewish community in Persia go back a long time, to the time of Nebudchenezer. They predate the Islamic invasion by a very long time.

Actually, Iranian Jews who are in Israel seem to prefer to return to Iran rather than stay in Israel. Indeed, Jewish immigration to Israel as a whole is reportedly at a 20-year low. See http://www.iranaffairs.com/

Your example of the story of a single family returning to Iran because things didn't go financially -- an article from 2 years ago no less -- doesn't exactly bolster your case. Also, return overall may be down, but from Iran it's up to 200 from the previous year's 65 which is the relevant number.

How much is Israel now offering per person for new Iranian immigrants -- $20,000?

At that price you could discover as many "lost tribes" as you like and people Israeli settlements with immigrants from every poor country in the world. In fact, I think this has been tried already!

What can I say? Jeff's logic is simply unbeatable. Leaving behind one's home, work, language, culture, relatives and friends is easily compensated for by $20,000 given by the Israeli government upon arrival at Ben Gurion airport.

In this scenario, Jeff neglects to take into account the other stereotype of the Jewish bags of money. for this myth to take hold, he needs to pretend that Iranian Jews are poor and desrtitute and easily lured by the promise of 20,000 pieces of silver.
___________

Solomon is right about the "dhimmi head of the Jewish Community in Iran". This is precisely what dhimmitude looks and sounds like. Bow your head and bend your knee to the Muslim ruler, or else...

Plenty of Jews and non-Jews have emigrated from Iran, "leaving behind one's home, work, language, culture, relatives and friends," as Noga puts it, to settle in England, France and the US without the offer of cash. Just not many have "returned" to Israel, despite the ever-rising monetary inducement.

Why do you suppose that is the case? Bad Jews?

Jeff: Oh, I see. You were not implying that it was the carrot that lured Iranian Jews. But quite the contrary. That in spite of the carrot, they are not immigrating to Israel. But why are you so concerned about this issue? Are you worried about Israel's demographic problems? Or happy?

BTW, when I came to Canada, I also enjoyed all sorts of monetary inducements, such as not having to pay income tax for the first two years. That amounted to a whole lot more than $20,000 :-) Israel is not unique in offering financial inducement to desirable immigrants.

What makes you think that the "inducements" given by the Israelis is limited to the $20,000 bribe-sorry-inducement? They also get additional financial breaks as with any other "Returnees" to Israel - like low-cost housing loans for homes built on stolen Palestinian lands.

Wow - 200 people from Iran decided to move to Israel last year. Yawn. Thousands more people, including Jews and IRanians and Iranian Jews - all went elsewhere.

When I came as a refugee to the US, my family could only initially make it here with a stipend from the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS), the oldest refugee aid organization in the US. I doubt Jeff ever left whatever rock he lives under, yet somehow wants to throw mud at us.

The story is odd, of course it is focused on the involvement of a Christian group, but it leaves out some pretty important info. Like the fact that the Iranian government makes it extremely difficult to emigrate, while not forlammy illegal.

This is for policy reasons, first, because they want to show that they don't hate Jews, just Zionism, and having a captive Jewish community bolsters this claim. Second, because allowing Jews to emigrate to Israel strengthens the Zionist enemy.

On another point, th leaders of the Jewish community are dhimmi, but they deserve our sympathy, they and their community live under tremendous pressures and have to say what the government wants to hear. Like Christians in Bethlehem and Gaza who tell reporters how wonderful their relationship with Muslims is. What do you expect these proor people to say?

Actually, the video says it's $10,000 per person. Sure, I'd uproot myself for that...any time. And, yes, I'm sure that the Jews of Iran stay there because they love it there so much. As for Jews leaving Israel, many do but not necessarily to settle elsewhere permanently, and even when they do settle elsewhere, I understand that they retain ties to their country of origin.

It seems to me that if you don't like Israel, you'll use any anecdote that purports to reflect badly on that country, no matter how feeble that anecdote is. By the way, I have cousins from Russia who emigrated to the US in the early 1980s, when that country was still the Soviet Union. They couldn't make it in the USA financially because of culture shock, language problems and because their credentials were not acceptable here. So, when the wall came down, they went back to Russia. Now, does that mean that Russia is a more desirable place to live than the USA? Not exactly.

$10,000 is simply basic aid and "jump start" money. The notion it's some huge incentive, absent other prominent other factors, is absurd on the face of it. I doubt I'd leave the U.S. for a million or two - home, work, language, culture, relatives and friends considerations would all mitigate against such a decision.

Or perhaps, Jeff, you can tell us which country you'd be willing to move to - from the U.S. if that's where you reside - for $10,000? And keep in mind that in emigrating from the U.S. there would be no legal restrictions, not for Jews and not for any other ethnic, racial or religious group.

The following is interesting as well:

"Plenty of Jews and non-Jews have emigrated from Iran, "leaving behind one's home, work, language, culture, relatives and friends," as Noga puts it, to settle in England, France and the US without the offer of cash." Jeff

You are aware that many, many hundreds of thousands of immigrants to France, England and other western countries from north Africa and other points has been and continues to be incentivized by the extremely generous welfare systems of those states? Here we're talking decidedly more than $10,000 worth of incentives. Given your agenda or interests, this is not a subject, I would suggest, you want to explore in much detail.

Actually, that's a good point, Michael B. Many immigrants to Western countries are motivated to emigrate by cash, either through the welfare systems of western European states or Canada, or through the promise of more economic opportunity. The bit of money Israel offers each immigrant is meant just to make the adjustment easier. It's not a profit, especially considering the homes and possessions left behind. It's only aid to allay the hardship of settling in another country and starting over again.
Jeff is really being perverse here.

Darn tootin'. You betcha, yea. (I'm speaking Fargo-styled North Dakotoan there.) Steyn, Ye'or to a degree, Dalrymple, Phillips, certainly Fallaci and others as well have variously made this point; of course it's prima facie obvious as well since it's a simple, objective fact and a remarkably prominent factor at play in Europe. Nonetheless, Jeff, as with many others, manage to skip over the point - even when they're purportedly making an argument that concerns incentives.

Apparently, none are so blind as those who take pride in cultivating their blindness. (That's Fargo-styled North Dakotoan in their aphoristic mode.)

My, my. It seems I touched a nerve. The point was not that $10,000 or $20,000 is so much an inducement, but that people who want to escape an oppressive existence and return to their putative true "homeland" should not need any inducement whatsoever. Isn't that the basic ideology of Zionism?

I never understood the concept of "armchair Zionists" -- so evident here -- sitting in Boston or Brookline or Newton and lecturing others about the wonders of their distant promised land. But then many thousands of (former) Israelis have decided that their own promised land lies elsewhere. Is it 500,000 or 800,000 living in the US? And how many other thousands in Europe? All bad Jews?

We have now heard from Jeff. When is Mutt going to throw his 2 cents worth in?

Jeff, when another Republican is elected President of the US, will you be leaving, ending your occupation of North America?

Remember Jeff, you ARE an occupier of a land you have no right to.

And to which country will you inflict yourself on?

"My, my. It seems I touched a nerve."

Really? Someone starts telling people where they should live and why, and repeats the usual defamatory lies about a certain minority which is always on edge due to its experience of millennial defamation, expulsions and persecution, of course will react with outrage at your innuendoes. The fact that you are so pleased with your contempt and successful baiting should tell you something about yourself and your motivation. I can only assume you are a graduate of Counterpunch and its ilk and that's probably a kinder surmise than you deserve.

Dr. Evil was funny, thanks. I don't have anything much to add, except to comment sadly on the low level of discourse when people's cherished illusions are challenged here.

One clarification: I am not the one claiming to dictate where people should live, but the ardent Zionists apparently think they know better. Going back to the original thread, it began with the idea that Iranian Jews should want to go to Israel -- and if they hesitate we will attempt to bribe them.

And for the record, a personal note:
My grandparents all came to the US from Tsarist Russia, fleeing genuine persecution and seeking a better life here. Partly they found it, partly not. For myself, while I often disagree with the policies of my government, I have just one country, this one. And recognizing the injustices that were done to the native and enslaved peoples in America -- though long before my family arrived -- I favor substantial reparations to the victims.

You haven't elevated the discourse or challenged anything. You came in casting snarky comments around that you thought were clever but really showed you weren't worth spending a lot of time on. The bottom line is that I don't find a pittance like 10 grand a person in resettlement assistance to be particularly remarkable, nor the fact that Jews might choose a life in what's viewed as a fat America to what's probably a tougher, less material life in Israel. So what? I admire the fact that people choose Israel at all. That's why it's news.

Now we're on to reparations for slaves and Native Americans? How interesting! Pay them yourself (whoever "they" are).

Maybe Czar Putin will pay Jeff 10,000 Rubles or Euros to return to Mother Russia.

That should be enough seed money for Jeff to re-establish the family collective.

With Jeff back home, there will be one less dumb Euro illegally occupying Native American land.

With Tehran now denying that any Jews fled to Israel and detractors of Israel all bend out of shape over this aliyah, perhaps this story is more significant than I initially assumed.

As far as Jeff, ex-union boss, heh, seems you already know just how marginal your views are. Perhaps sitting in your Dorchester hole makes you that angry, heh? Not much luck in attracting more flies to your cause?

Re: Chana, Eddie, Noga, Harry et al

Pitiful, really pitiful. . .

Jeff, HA!

But you must be used to people laughing at you.

You better bone up on your Russian "comrade".

Eddie: Your Neanderthal comments are an argument for the reality of human de-volution. If all of Israel's supporters were as ignorant as you are, then the Zionist project would certainly be doomed sooner rather than later. . . Go chew a bone.

What a scintillating exchange. Jeff, why don't you tell us exactly what your beef with Jews is? Were your grandparents chased away from Russia by pogromming Jews or was it the other way around?

Comrade Jeff, incase you didn't notice, the "Zionist Project" is doing pretty well thanks to the US.

However your "islamofascist enclave" is not despite aid from the US, EU and even "The Zionist Project".

Did you see how your heroic PaleSWININANs commemorated the third anniversary of the passing of Yassir? More infighting with several dead PaleSWINIANS.

Isn't it customary for your fellow morons to shoot in the air, not at each other.

Maybe they had their "Keffiyahs" on backwards and they couldn't see what they were shooting at.

Scintillating indeed. Sometimes one has to descend to the low level of discourse demanded by one's thuggish respondents. Seems that is their natural form of communication.

I never mentioned anything negative about Jews -- unless you think unwillingness to settle in Israel is the sign of moral degeneration. I don't.

Noga and Eddie apparently chew on the same bone. Can Chana and Harry be far behind? Good night all.

Bow WOW!

What an extraordinary non-sequitur! You know it is a logical fallacy, don't you, to founce out of a conversation which you started with a statement and then a conclusion that do not follow from the premises of this blogpost and that you have done nothing to support by any valid argument or facts, but by lots of mulish ad-homs..

Comrade Jeff,

when you moan over Israel giving Iranian Jews a monetary incentive to LIVE in Israel

whilst you ignore the Islamofascist monetary incentive for PaleSWINIAN youth to DIE for PaleSWINE, that is YOUR MORAL DEGENERATION.

"If all of Israel's supporters were as ignorant as you are, then the Zionist project would certainly be doomed sooner rather than later"

Always gratifying to see the local JVP'rs drop the facade and show how truly anti-Zionist they really are.

Sorry to spoil your Gotcha Moment, but I do not belong to JVP and certainly do not speak for them or any of their members. What their views on Zionism are I have no idea.

And what, if not ignorant and racist, are comments like Eddie's above?

I'm happy to take the correction. You're from Dorchester People For Peace. "Working for peace by dismantling one Jewish State at a time." You just hang with the JVP people. [comment edited]

You can ask Eddie why he posts the way he does. I suspect he finds the internet a way to vent with no PC worries, but his opinions are his own.

Racist? Since when are palestinians, as you call them, a Race?

Clean up your own act Jeff.

The "people" you champion are acting in a very inhuman way. Look at what happened to Bhutto. And they have the gaul to say with a straight face that Islam is the "Religion of Peace".

Er, "PaleSWINIANS?" Ignorant and racist, as I said.

Are Jews a "race"? Is it OK to refer to them as (fill in the blank)?

Yes, I am proud to be for peace and I hang with all sorts of people -- some of them even Jews. I don't disparage any people because of their ethnic or religious affiliations, though I may condemn their political ideology and actions.

It's Pakistanis who killed Bhutto. Not Palestinians.

And please, Eddie, don't take this as if I'm siding with Jeff on this, but your habit of calling Palestinians "PaleSWINIAN" is very offputting. May not be racist, but it is deliberately offensive. With all due consideration for the outrage that their actions and words provoke, there are many many among them who do not deserve to be tarred with this kind of insult. If I'm outraged by being called pig and ape, the very last thing I would want to do is reciprocate with the same kinds of metaphors and bad faith in retaliation.

Remember Abraham's bargaining with God over the fate of Sodom:

“And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.”

GENESIS 18:32

"Yes, I am proud to be for peace"

You have said nothing here, nothing at all, that would give the slightest indication that peace is your pursuit. All you have spewed is bile and contempt for Jews and Israel. I wonder what kind of "peace" you are speaking about, with that kind of attitude.

"I do not belong to JVP and certainly do not speak for them or any of their members. What their views on Zionism are I have no idea."

Jeff, this is not a way to disavow your friends. Howie, vice-chair JVP Boston, considers you to be one of his best friends, and isn't this your photo at Bili'in riots posted on the JVP website with an account of that JVP-sponsored trip? http://blog.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/Jeff.jpg You never heard Howie's views on Zionism on all these trips and your speaking rounds with him around Boston? Why run for cover now?

You also publicly claim to have joined ADCMA - do your views on Zionism and Israel reflect position of that organization?

It's Pakistanis who killed Bhutto. Not Palestinians.

Islamists killed Bhutto. Given their voting record and their plans to install Sharia law in "Palestine", the Palestinians are Islamists too.

Al Qaeda in Pakistan, like Hamas, is funded by billions of Muslim brotherhood-managed petrodollars, so yes, the same people are responsible.

Yes, I am proud to be for peace

The UN is for peace, Osama is for peace, Hitler was for peace, Stalin was for peace and the Palestinians are for peace. Everyone is for peace, they just define it differently.

Another country heard from.

I suppose all of you agree with everything your friends believe to the last dotted "i" and crossed "t". Not me. I have Jewish, Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim -- but not racist -- friends and we don't make list of all our beliefs to check off.

As I said, I don't know JVP's stand, if any, on "Zionism." Ask them if you want to know. Nor ADCMA's, if there is one. Upholding international law and human rights, opposing racism and discrimination against Arabs and Muslims is quite enough for me. Lots of Israelis agree with that too -- actual Israelis who live there, not armchair Zionists from Boston's suburbs.

And, yes, lots of people say they are for "peace" -- even Ehud Olmert, Ariel Sharon and George Bush.

Has anybody got any better idea from Jeff's latest as to what exactly he means when he says "peace"?

All I saw was a great declarative concern for poor Muslims and Arabs. Maybe he missed reading the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which talks about ALL human beings, including, Jews and Israelis. Maybe Jeff has a special category just for them, apart from the human race, who knows?

Jeff doesn't seem to be very coherent about what he wants to say. But he is for peace for the Arabs and Muslims. That makes him a "good" Jew.

And, yes, lots of people say they are for "peace" -- even Ehud Olmert, Ariel Sharon and George Bush.

Everyone is for peace, which is why saying that you're for peace is a pointless statement. You may as well say you're breathing.

It's certainly not proof of any virtue.

Upholding international law and human rights, opposing racism and discrimination against Arabs and Muslims is quite enough for me.

What about the racism and discrimination committed by Arabs and Muslims? Millions have died, been enslaved and suffered from ethnic cleansing as a result of that.

Jeff saying he's for "peace" is like a cannibal saying he "likes people".

Where is Muslim Voice for Peace?

Or Salaam Now?

Or where are "peace activists" marching to disrupt Kassam rocket factories in PaleSWINE.

Or where are "peace activists" disrupting Kassam rocket launches from PaleSWINE towards Israel?

Or "anti-war" activists denouncing al-qada?

Jeff in #39 you queried...
>Are Jews a "race"? Is it OK to refer to them as (fill in the blank)?

No, Jews are NOT a race. Only racists like your hooded friends believe Jews are a race.

Your Islamofascist PaleSWINIANS DO teach that Jewa are pigs and apes. Want proof?

View the video at the link below. It's a video of a 3 year old child being trained to voice the Islamofascist party line.

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/924.htm


Noga, I believe we are on the same side, supporters of Israel. When I read people defaming Israel with racist comments, my reaction is to reciprocate in kind.

From the River to the Sea,
PaliSWINE will Never Be.

"Syme: It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words. You wouldn't have seen the [Newspeak] Dictionary 10th edition, would you Smith? It's that thick. [illustrates thickness with fingers] The 11th Edition will be that [narrows fingers] thick. Winston Smith: So, The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect? Syme: The secret is to move from translation, to direct thought, to automatic response. No need for self-discipline. Language coming from here [the larynx], not from here [the brain]" -1984 (film)


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